The Interview: Michelle Davis
How coaching—and relationships and systems coaching—can deepen the work of justice, equity, and inclusion in our workplaces.
Michelle Davis is an assistant professor and director of the justice, equity, and inclusion program at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus, and director of systemic equity for CRR Global. I participated in a workshop she led, which blew me away—it was so good. Here’s Michelle on LinkedIn. —Steph
Tell us about yourself.
I like that question. Normally people start with what we do, our professions, but that’s not who I am. I think at my core I fundamentally believe in the power of opportunity and choice and holding it with integrity, empathy, and lion’s roar—that energetic awareness we can bring to anything. It’s almost a requirement for me in systemic equity work. I’m also a person of faith, and most everyone has a compass, whether it be a higher power or a parent or whomever, but it is that compass that calls us to do better on behalf of humanity. Part of the challenge I see in society is that we get stuck in the narratives of our identities—and we should recognize those identities, but we should also lift our gaze and see how identity is getting in the way of relationships. I want to create more conscious intentionally in how we show up with one another and move all of the noise out of the way.
Can you say more about “lion’s roar.” What is it, and how do you get it?
I was recently watching a wildlife documentary about a mama lion who’d been kicked out of her pride. Two young male lions caught her scent began tracking her, and what I noticed was the ferocity with which she protected her cubs from them—one predator at her front, the other at her back. So “lion’s roar” is showing up as a version of that protector. What are we protecting? We’re protecting ourselves from descending into dehumanization. It sounds altruistic but we have to find a way to do this or we’re going to continue to see wars, riots, Black men killed by the police, all of the harms—and they are numerous.
How do you get there? You have to let go of self a little bit, or balance it with a higher calling, a higher purpose. Let go of self on behalf of the relationships you have before you.
As you were talking about the mama lion, I felt myself lean in, like I’m sitting on the edge of my seat. Then when you said I have to let go, I felt myself relax and sit back—that interplay between engagement and surrender. Thanks for expanding on it.
Switching gears, what is your training and certification as a coach?
I trained with Co-Active Training Institute. When I did, I was a little salty during my first class—I went through years of schooling and a practicum to become a therapist, yet here was something similar, and you could complete it in a year? But I let that story go. Then I had the opportunity to be coached by an organizational and relationship systems coach (ORSC) through CRR Global, and I remember saying, “I want to learn that” because it was magical; so I completed my ORSC training and certification. I also hold my Professional Coaching Certification (PCC) through the International Coaching Federation, and I’m a certified Dare to Lead facilitator.
How does your therapy background influence your work as a coach and vice versa?
I think it has expanded me. There’s a space for counseling—for people with PTSD, or depression, or mental challenges. And then there’s also people who are going to counseling because their family is struggling or they are struggling with their identity, and I think that’s where coaching and therapy overlap. To me, coaching is more expansive. I want to say it’s more magical—it blows the doors open on what is possible within us. Coaching is really experiential, and I don’t see counseling as expanding moments into a greater sense of self and purpose.
What does coaching—or relationship and systems coaching—bring to the work of justice, equity, and inclusion?
Coaching offers the justice, equity, and inclusion space an examination of something deeper. Not going a mile wide, but going inches deeper into how we got to where we are. How did I come to believe that it’s “better” to live in a suburb? How did I come to believe a school that’s predominantly white is “better”? How did I come to believe that it’s normal for certain people to work in the service sector, especially during Covid? That’s getting deeper. It’s like liberating yourself from a colonized mindset.
There’s people who freeze and don’t know what to do when they see a micro-aggression or when issues of white power and privilege come forward. What is that part of you that doesn’t know what to do? Let’s get curious about that, and let’s get in better relationship with the part that freezes or defends. Where is the source? It’s coming from somewhere. Let’s talk about it. Once it’s exposed, you’re in better relationship, and thus a better understanding with that part. You may choose to continue to behave the same way, but you will be changed because now you know.
Here’s a personal example. Recently I gave a presentation to a group of pediatricians, and I found myself going into “professionalization” mode: these are doctors, you have to have your ducks in a row, you have to have everything right so they perceive you as accomplished and not a stereotype of an African American woman who is a director of a justice, equity, and inclusion program. I had to pause—literally minutes before my presentation—and say, “Michelle, you’re doing exactly what you’re telling people not to do. You’re leaning into professionalism rather than relating as a human being.” So I exposed myself. I said here are my slides, this is what I’d planned to do, but I think it’s better for us to just talk and be in relationship.
Did you have an “a-ha” moment when you discovered the power of the coaching model for yourself?
I think it was when Grace Flannery, an ORSC coach who has since passed away, coached a leadership team I was on. There were some difficult dynamics on that team and I wasn’t very open to resolving them because I’d built up stories about several members of the team. The way that I’d worked prior to coaching was I’d show up with the parts of me that I felt were safe to share—but not all of me. I protected myself as a Black woman.
In this instance, Grace began softly working her magic, calling me in using the relationship and systems coaching tools. It was so powerful that the challenges I was having with people on the leadership team reduced, and ultimately we developed friendships.
What are you like as a coach?
I think it would depend on the client. I think it’s a soft build—I’m soft in the beginning because I want to get to know who they are. My process as a coach is to be in the discovery and meet them. Once we’ve started building that relationship—which doesn’t take a lot of time—I want what they want. When we have some street cred I can be bold and call them forward.
What do you wish everyone knew about coaching?
That it’s not therapy. And it’s likely not the stories you make up about what it is. Experience it first; let go of the stories. We can wrap all kinds of words around what coaching is, but it’s the experience. What points to this is how many people have left careers to become coaches once they understood the power of it.
What is your vision for the coaching industry?
In my training and coaching traditions, we talk about coaching the whole person, or all parts of ourselves. But I think there’s often parts that get left behind, especially for people of color as clients. I remember someone said to me once, “Well, coaching is agnostic. If the client wants to bring something in, they will.” Yes and no. We carry histories with us, and those histories can get shelved. What if there was greater awareness of how identity does influence the coaching relationship? Just because you’re skilled as a coach doesn’t mean you’re skilled at leaning into diversity—and the coaching industry is predominantly white women. My hope is for coaches to expand their awareness.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.