The Interview: Kerry Woodcock
On athletics, the power of being present, and re-sourcing
Kerry Woodcock, director of Novalda, divides her time between Canada and Spain. She was one of my instructors at CRR Global and I felt a kinship with her right away. True story, in a QA portion of our workshop, someone asked Kerry about “her background,” and they literally meant her emerald green Zoom screen. (To be fair, we’d all privately noticed and admired it, so there’s that.) But here’s a bit more about Kerry’s other background—her life and career. Connect with Kerry on her LinkedIn. — Steph
Tell us about yourself.
I’ve got a tagline on my LinkedIn and website, which I’m trying to remember right now, but I’ve been calling myself a “brink leader,” meaning I am a challenger of the status quo—and that resonates. And I question it at times, too. I’m also a “story weaver.” I love stories and connecting to others through story. Finally, I’m a “light sprite,” and that comes from various people noticing this quality in my personality. I tend to, for the most part, connect to the lighter, humorous side of life, although I like to go to the depths as well. That’s what I want to tell you about myself.
What is your training and certification as a coach?
Originally I’d wanted to study psychology but the “positive” part was missing, or I hadn’t found it yet. Later, I’d just moved to Calgary and had been traveling to Tanzania and the U.K. when I began reading about positive psychology, including Martin Seligman’s Flourish, in which he speaks about coaching. I was an athlete growing up so I thought, “what’s this thing, coaching people over the phone, that seems a bit strange.” Eventually my husband said you keep talking about it—why don’t you look into it?
Now I’ve probably got too much training. I first trained with Co-Active Training Institute and started my business soon after, primarily coaching other ex-pats who were launching new careers or had parents or kids in other countries. Today I am a professional certified coach (PCC) through the International Coaching Federation. Among other credentials, I’m certified in organizational and relationship systems coaching (ORSC) through CRR Global. I’m a certified practitioner in team coaching through Global Team Coaching Institute, and certified in leadership maturity coaching through the Vertical Development Academy. “Vertical development” fascinates me. The idea is that—similar to children—adults experience stages of maturity and growth. So through this lens, how do we, as coaches, honor or connect to the different stages of meaning-making in our clients’ lives? Finally, I’m trained as a coach supervisor. I feel very fulfilled in that work—there’s lots of depth there.
What was your career before coaching, and is there a link between the two?
I’m one of those multi-passionate people. I have a doctorate in geography and environmental management, and my research was about participatory forest management and policy, or how people and communities could be a part of managing and owning a forest—connecting to it rather than living with it reserved or separated from them by government. My research involved a lot of negotiation and working with different stakeholders, so essentially systems work. Initially, when I was pivoting careers to coaching, people thought it was a big leap. But there are lots of similarities. For example, my anthropological approach was creative. I was working in a remote village in East Africa with people in their homes, or sometimes in the fields, or under the tree at the village meeting, and we’d use stones and leaves to draw maps and rank how different resource areas were useful. It was collective and collaborative—I wanted to get all of the voices heard—which also has strong ties to systems coaching. I do wish I would have had the ORSC skills when I was in Tanzania, though. I think that could have added extra elements.
Your approach to research—ethnographic studies, anthropological methods, etc.—could be applied to many different fields. Was there something that drew you to forestry, specifically?
There’s a few things. I competed as a junior Great Britain race walker, and even though that is an individual sport, there were lots of connection to others and a sense of team as well—so when I was considering studying psychology it was probably sports psychology. But that didn’t feel big enough. It didn’t have a big enough impact on the world. And this was in the 90s, when everything in the news was about how we were losing the forests, and I always like to be on the edge of thinking, exploring the new thing. Going back even further, I grew up in a very small town in Northern England, and there was a stand in the library with all of these amazing books about travel to Africa—memoirs and stories about women traveling—and I’ve always been curious about different cultures. I like getting out of my comfort zone and having my values and my way of being challenged.
The library story makes me consider how small or seemingly inconsequential decisions—how a librarian chooses to curate a bookshelf—can have cascading effects in other people’s lives.
Yes, people have asked me, “why Africa?” and I’d just always imagined myself there. It wasn’t until the last five years or so that I put it together and thought, “do you know what? Is it because of those books?”
Did you have an “a-ha” moment when you realized the power of the coaching model for yourself?
This is the one question I should have prepared for because I don’t know what it is. But my dad—he shows up in my stories quite a bit—was my athletics coach, too. In race walking you get disqualified if you pick up both feet because then you’re running, and I remember one time I’d been disqualified from an important race that determined whether I could advance to an international competition. I’d gone back to the warm-up track to collect myself when I looked over and saw my dad sitting on a wall in the distance, wearing one of his usual silly hats. When I was ready, I went and sat next to him on the wall, and he didn’t say a thing. For quite a long time we just sat beside each other. And then he said, “what did you take away, what did you learn from this?” And then, “how are you going to let it go?” But it was less about what he said and more about what he did, which was just be alongside me in my disappointment and annoyance. It was such a simple but profound moment. I always strive to be like that, meeting people wherever they are, whether celebrating or reconciling with failure.
I got to be with my dad when he died in 2006. It sounds weird, but it was a great experience—again the power of being with someone. There’ve been so many times when I’ve thought, “I’ve got to do something. I’ve got to say something.” But no. It’s about how can we keep returning to being present.
What are you like as a coach today?
I’m known to be playful and light. That’s the energy that people speak to the most. People say they can bring me anything because I show up a little bit—I’m not perfect, which feels like a backhanded compliment, now that I say it. But I know “authentic” is what they mean. I challenge systems, as well. I can bring that hrrnng—I don’t know what to call it—but this sense of, “Hang on! Stop! What’s going on here?” Also ethics, integrity, is huge for me, living to our purpose as individuals and organizations. Are we doing what we say we’re doing? Are we willing to look at the shadows? Are we aware of them? Because we’re all human. We all mess up.
For me, the co-coaching element is the most powerful thing in the systems and team work that I do. It makes me teary, but the power of two—the power of relationship. I’ve been very honored and privileged to work with so many people, including Sherry Matheson. She was my first co-coach and we still work together.
On your social media platforms, you speak about the importance of “re-sourcing,” whether as a coach, leader, parent. How do you re-source?
That’s been a question for me. I feel re-sourced when I feel connected, and connecting to my body is a priority this year. I’ll say one of my standards, and it’s as simple as this: I like to take very long, hot baths. There’s something about the release. Other times I like to listen to podcasts, conversations, and again it’s that storytelling piece that brings me back to myself. Over the last year I’ve explored breath work and somatic experiences, releasing any tensions or traumas in the body, and that feels cleansing. Dance is another one. In Covid I started dancing a bit more in my living room, but dance is a practice I lose and come back to.
What do you wish everyone knew about coaching or systems coaching?
This is something I tell team coaching clients: It’s going to be uncomfortable. This is the place of growth. Yes, there should be times when coaching is fun, but lean into the discomfort. People often say, “We want team building!” but the team’s already built, so how are you going to develop and grow together? Then there’s one thing that I get annoyed with, so I’ll share that, too—systems coaching, team coaching, has a lot of similarities with one-on-one coaching, but it also has unique competencies and skills. The ability to hold the team or unit as one entity—and then help the team members see it this way—is super important.
Yes, I get it. I think corporations tend to skew toward activities that promote “bonding” rather than working out deeper relationship challenges (which will, in the end, create deeper bonds). But it feels edgy. It requires a willingness to lean into the discomfort you mentioned.
Kerry, thank you so much for your time, and transparency, and lightness. Last question, what is your dream or hope for the coaching profession?
I think it’s happening right now, that coaching is becoming democratized. More leaders are working with—and training as—coaches. And secondly, my hope is that we, as coaches, take our work seriously and reflect on the ethics. How can we work with our biases, triggers, and psychology so that we’re being transparent, real, and effective? Because it’s easy to default to wanting to be liked. Following from that, it would be the same request for leaders to get more and more reflective about how they show up in their work.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.